Which 2520?

Hi Brother Jeff,

I have a question for you in regards to Daniel 8. If you could manage to spare a few moments of your valuable time to help answer my query, I would be most appreciative. I recently listened to Brother E. give his thoughts that the chazon vision refers to the 2520, and the mareh is referring to the 2300, within the context of Daniel 8. I do see much logic in what he is saying, but I’m confused as to which 2520 it refers. In Dan 8:17 we are informed that, “at the time of the end shall be the vision.” Now if we go along with other parts of Daniel, the time of the end is 1798. That would make the chazon refer to the first 2520, unless of course this time of the end refers to 1844, as the end of the last great time prophecy, the second 2520. In verse 19 we are told that we are to “know what shall be in the last end of the indignation,” which I understand to be the end of the second 2520. I am confused because of the question that arises in verse 13 “How long shall be the vision (chazon), concerning the Daily (paganism), and the transgression of desolation (papalism), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot? I am confused because these two desolating powers finished in 1798, and if the mareh is a snapshot of the chazon, the 2300 goes on to 1844, which is not part of this vision. Could you give some clarity to this for me please, it is probably something very simple I am overlooking, or fail to understand? With kind regards, Brother M.


Dear Brother M,

Of course it is always better to ask the one who teaches a thing what he means, rather than another, but I see the issue you are identifying, so I will give it a shot.

The Millerites saw both 2520’s but struggled on how to apply them. Some chose to apply only one, and Miller, seeing both, had some misconceptions about their relationship to each other. Therefore the Millerites discovered this truth, but the clarity concerning them is only being opened up to us now.

One thing that was not initially recognized, and may not even now be recognized by some is that the 2520, though at one level is two distinct prophecies against two kingdoms, at another level is also just one prophecy. By that I mean that they should be identified in their singular applications, but also as a whole. When we approach them as a whole, then we fithat from 723BC to 677BC was the scattering process, and from 1798 to 1844 was the gathering process. The initial forty-six years and the ending fortysix years represent the scattering and then the gathering.

When we fi Daniel 8:17 representing the time of the end in 1798, and also emphasize that this is the chazon vision, we should probably go the extra mile and explain that there are two “times” of the Gentiles, one ending in 1798 and the other in 1844. Therefore, for Gabriel to mark the time of the end in 1798, and identify that as the chazon vision, does not deny the 2520 as the chazon, for the trampling down of the sanctuary and the host ended in 1844 according to Daniel 8:14 in agreement with the “second” time of the Gentiles, and the trampling down also ended in 1798 according to Revelation 11:2 in agreement with the “first” time of the Gentiles. 1798 is the time of the end when the forty-six year period of the gathering arrived.

It is easy for us to see and understand a single day or single year for the beginning or the end of a prophecy, but what I am saying is that the forty-six year period that marks the beginning and ending of this prophecy can be correctly applied as Gabriel did in 1798, even though the full period of the gathering did not end until 1844. The forty-six years at the beginning is marking the scattering of two nations and the forty-six years at the end is marking the gathering of one nation. I, of course, am uncertain how Brother E. would answer you, so I am sending our dialogue to him, for he is generally willing to defend his own thoughts. Jeff.

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1 Reply to “Which 2520?

  1. The prophetic period of Lev. xxvi, or what has been supposed to be such, has been no small object of study among prophetical expositors. It has been supposed that the expression, “seven times,” in verses 18, 21, 24, 28, denoted a prophetic period of 2520 years, and that this period covered the time during which the throne of Israel should be and remain subverted and trodden down by oppressing powers. To rightly fix the commencement and termination of this period became therefore a matter of consequence. Where does it commence? And where does it end? Have been questions of much study, and perhaps some perplexity.
    These are not the questions, however, that we propose here to discuss; for there is a question lying back of these, which demands to be answered first; namely, Is there any prophetic period brought to view at all in Lev. xxvi? We claim that there is not, and will offer a few of what are to us very conclusive reasons for this position:
    1. A series of judgments is threatened against Israel, in case they hearkened not unto God to do his commandments, before the expression, seven times, is introduced.
    Verses 14-17. In these judgments is included being slain before their enemies, being reigned over by those that hated them, and fleeing when none pursued them. Now if the seven times were meant to cover the period of God’s special judgments against
    Israel, especially of their captivity by foreign powers, these seven times should have been mentioned in connection with the first threatening of judgments of this kind. But this, as we have seen, is not the case.
    2. After the threatening of these judgments, God says, verse 18, “And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.”
    Then follows an enumeration of the judgments to come upon them in fulfillment of this, different from the items of the first threatening, and increasing in severity.
    3. If they would not for this hearken, seven times more plagues were threatened against them, “according to their sins.” Verse 21. Then again follows an enumeration of judgments to correspond, more severe still than any preceding.
    4. If they would not be reformed by these things, God threatened to punish them seven times more for their sins. Verse 24. And in like manner with the foregoing, an enumeration of the judgments to be inflicted in fulfillment, immediately follows, more fearful still.
    5. And if they would not hearken to God for all these things, he makes a final threat that would walk contrary to them in fury, and chastise them seven times for their sins. Verse 28. And an enumeration of the judgments to be inflicted, again immediately follows, outdoing all before, in their terrible severity. Included among them were the eating of the flesh of their sons and daughters, making waste their cities, bringing the land into such desolation that their enemies should be astonished at it, scattering them among all nations, and drawing out a sword after them in all the lands of their dispersion. With fearful minuteness all this has been fulfilled, even to the eating the flesh of their own children, as in the terrible sieges that preceded the downfall of
    Thus we have, first, a series of judgments threatened against Israel, without the expression, seven times, and then the declaration four times made, that God would punish them seven times for their sins, each one on condition that the former did not lead to repentance, and each one containing its own specific enumeration of judgments, distinct from those that preceded, and regularly increasing in the severity of then denunciations. Now what is meant by this repeated expression of seven times? We reply, It denotes, not the duration of the punishment, but its intensity and severity. It is well expressed in the language of verse 21, thus:
    “I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.” The number seven denoting perfection, we are undoubtedly to understand by this expression, the fullness of their punishment; that the measure of their national sins, would in every case be fully equaled by the measure of their national calamities. {January 26, 1864 JWe, ARSH 68.8} And this position is fully sustained by the original, as a brief criticism will show.
    In references to the Hebrew, we learn from the Hebrew Concordance that the expression, seven times, in Lev. xxvi, comes from sheh-vag; and this word is expressly set down by Gesenius, in those texts, as an adverb, also in Ps. cxix, 164; Prov. xxiv, 16. In Dan. iv, 16, 25, the expression, seven times, twice occurs, where beyond question it means duration.
    Nebuchadnezzar was to be driven from men, and make his dwelling with the beasts of the field, until seven times should pass over him. There can be no mistaking that here the expression means a certain space of time; but here we find, not the adverb as in Lev. xxvi, but the noun,
    gid-dahn, defined by Gesenius, “Time, in prophetic language, for a year.” In Dan. vii, 25, where a prophetic period is brought to view in the expression, “a time and times and the dividing of time,” the same word is used. In Dan. xii, 7, where the same period is again brought to view, and in about the same language, we have another word, moh-gehd, defined by Gesenius,
    “Appointment of time. Spoken of a space of time, appointed and definite. In the prophetic style for a year.” It will be seen by this definition, that this word is synonymous with the one used in
    Dan. vii, 25, as above referred to. Now if a period of time is meant by the expression, seven times, in Lev. xxvi, one of these words should and would most assuredly have been used. And the fact that neither of these words is there used, but another word, and that an adverb, places it beyond question that no such period is there intended.
    The Greek is equally definite. The Septuagint has in Lev. xxvi, heptakis, which is an adverb, signifying seven times. In Dan. iv, 16, 25, for Nebuchadnezzar’s seven times we have not
    heptakis, the adverb, but heptakairoi, a noun and its adjective. And in all cases where the word time occurs, denoting a prophetic period, as in Dan. vii, 25; xii, 7; Rev. xii, 14, it is from the noun
    kairos. Such a thing as a prophetic period based on an adverb is not to be found.
    So then, there is no prophetic period in Lev. xxvi; and those who imagine that such a thing exists, and are puzzling themselves over the adjustment of its several dates, are simply beating the air. To ignore, or treat with neglect, a prophetic period where one is plainly given, is censurable in the extreme. It is an equally futile, though not so heinous, a course, to endeavor to create one where none exists. (James White, “The Seven Times of Lev. Xxvi,” Review and
    Herald, January 26, 1864).
    Dear Jeff, Why do you focus on what the Bible approves not? What evidence will you give to support your position concerning what I outlined?

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