What does the “tidings from the east and north” in Daniel 11:44 represent?

Brother BC,

The “tidings out of the east and out of the north” (Daniel 11:44) represents the third angel’s message.

Point One – Here a little, there a little

Isaiah 41 identifies Christ as the righteous one that comes from the east and the north: “Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow… I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay Isaiah 41:2, 25.

Therefore east and north represent Christ’s righteousness.

Similarly Revelation 7 shows the sealing angel ascending from the east:

“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea.” Revelation 7:2.

Therefore, “east” represents the sealing message.

Also Mathew 24 and Sister White both tell us that Christ’s second coming is associated with the east:

“For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Matthew 24:27.

“Soon there appears in the east a small black cloud, about half the size of a man’s hand. It is the cloud which surrounds the Saviour… The people of God know this to be the sign of the Son of man.” The Great Controversy, p.640.

Therefore, “east” represents the message of Christ’s second coming.

Lastly, Jeremiah 1 & 4, and Ezekiel 9 both describe how God’s punishment or judgment upon Israel comes from the north:

“Then the LORD said unto me, Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land.” Jeremiah 1:14. “Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.” Jeremiah 4:6. “And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.” Ezekiel 9:2.

Therefore, “north” represents the judgment message.

So the message of Christ’s righteousness; the sealing; the second coming; and the judgment are all represented in Daniel 11:44 by the phrase “tidings out of the east and out of the north”. All these terms: judgment; the second coming; sealing; and Christ’s righteousness, are used by Sister White in connection with the third angel’s message.

Point Two – The Sequence

Daniel 11 – The last six verses of Chapter 11 begin with verse 40 in 1798 the “time of the end”, when the deadly wound is inflicted. Verses 40 & 41 then go on to tell how the deadly wound begins to be healed by the conquering of the first two obstacles – the “king of the south” (the Soviet Union), and the “glorious land” (the USA). By verses 42 & 43, the king of the north has conquered the third and final obstacle – “Egypt” (the World); and the deadly wound is completely healed. Then in verse 44, we see the message of the hour – the third angel’s message.

Revelation 13 – Sister White says:

“The time during which the papal power was to oppress God’s people… terminated in 1798. At that time… the papal power received its deadly wound… At this point another symbol is introduced. Says the prophet: ‘I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb.’” The Great Controversy, 439.

“At the time when the Papacy, robbed of its strength, was forced to desist from persecution, John beheld a new power coming up to echo the dragon’s voice, and carry forward the same cruel and blasphemous work. This power, the last that is to wage war against the church and the law of God, is represented by a beast with lamblike horns. The beasts preceding it had risen from the sea; but this came up out of the earth, representing the peaceful rise of the nation which it symbolized the United States.” Signs of the Times, February 8, 1910.

Therefore we know that John is taken to 1798 to receive the vision of Revelation 13. For we are told that this is the “time the papal power received its deadly wound” or “the time when the Papacy was robbed of its strength”. Revelation 13 then goes on to tell how the deadly wound is healed; as the image to the beast is formed (the USA), followed by the Worldwide enforcement of the mark of the beast. This is followed by Revelation 14, which identifies the three angel’s messages.

Revelation 13 & 14 is the identical structure and the same story as Daniel 11:40-45. Daniel 11 is telling the story from the perspective of the Papacy – “the king of the north”; and Revelation 13 is telling the same story but emphasizing the role of the USA – “the false prophet”.

Revelation 17 – In Revelation 17, John is carried into the “wilderness” (verse 3) to receive his vision. Revelation 12:6, 14 identify the “wilderness” time period as the 1,260 years of Papal rule. However, Revelation 17, not only tells us that John was carried to the “wilderness” time period (the 1,260 years of Papal rule), it specifies at what point in time he was taken there. Verse 4 tells us that when John saw the woman, she was already “the mother of harlots” – marking the fact that some of the Protestant churches had already returned to Rome; and verse 5 tells us that she was already “drunken with the blood of the saints” – identifying that the persecution had already taken place. In other words, Revelation 17 also begins in 1798; the chapter then goes on to tell how the deadly wound is healed; as she rides the sixth head (the USA), followed by the seventh (the UN one-world government). Once chapter 17 tells that story, we come to chapter 18, which emphasizes the message of the hour – the loud cry of the third angel’s message.

All three passages (Daniel 11:40–45, Revelation 13, 14 & 17, 18) begin in 1798, then tell how the Papacy returns to power, and then emphasize the message of the third angel. Revelation 17 emphasizes the role of the dragon power the ten kings, Revelation 13 emphasizes the role of the false prophet the USA, and Daniel 11 emphasizes the role of the beast the king of the north, the Papacy. Hope this helps. Jeff.

BC Replies

Brother Jeff,

The real question is: “are the tidings of verse 44 the message of Jones and Waggoner?” As I present the prophecy school DVD’s, some are saying, “I hear what he is saying. There is a lot of prophecy, but where is the Love of God?” I reply, “Isn’t God showing His love by revealing himself through prophecy?” What is your response? BC.


Brother BC,

Many of God’s people are under the misapprehension that the message of Jones and Waggoner was a complete revelation of the light of the loud cry of the third angel. However Sister White informs us that their message was just the beginning of that light. It was not all the light – it was the beginning of the light. If there is a beginning, then there must be more that follows:

“Let every one who claims to believe that the Lord is soon coming, search the Scriptures as never before; for Satan is determined to try every device possible to keep souls in darkness, and blind the mind to the perils of the times in which we are living. Let every believer take up his Bible with earnest prayer, that he may be enlightened by the Holy Spirit as to what is truth, that he may know more of God and of Jesus Christ whom He has sent. Search for the truth as for hidden treasures, and disappoint the enemy.

“The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth. For it is the work of every one to whom the message of warning has come, to lift up Jesus, to present Him to the world as revealed in types, as shadowed in symbols, as manifested in the revelations of the prophets, as unveiled in the lessons given to His disciples and in the wonderful miracles wrought for the sons of men. Search the Scriptures; for they are they that testify of Him.

“If you would stand through the time of trouble, you must know Christ, and appropriate the gift of His righteousness, which He imputes to the repentant sinner.” Selected Message, book 1, 362.

The gospel message that is to be proclaimed is found in the book of Revelation, but that message is portrayed within the context of prophecy.

“John in the Revelation foretells the proclamation of the gospel message just before Christ’s second coming. He beholds an angel flying ‘in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come.’ Revelation 14:6, 7.

“In the prophecy this warning of the judgment, with its connected messages, is followed by the coming of the Son of man in the clouds of heaven. The proclamation of the judgment is an announcement of Christ’s second coming as at hand. And this proclamation is called the everlasting gospel. Thus the preaching of Christ’s second coming, the announcement of its nearness, is shown to be an essential part of the gospel message. “The Bible declares that in the last days men will be absorbed in worldly pursuits, in pleasure and money-getting. They will be blind to eternal realities. Christ says, ‘As the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.’ Matthew 24:37-39.

“So it is today. Men are rushing on in the chase for gain and selfish indulgence as if there were no God, no heaven, and no hereafter. In Noah’s day the warning of the flood was sent to startle men in their wickedness and call them to repentance. So the message of Christ’s soon coming is designed to arouse men from their absorption in worldly things. It is intended to awaken them to a sense of eternal realities, that they may give heed to the invitation to the Lord’s table.

“The gospel invitation is to be given to all the world—‘to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.’ Revelation 14:6. The last message of warning and mercy is to lighten the whole earth with its glory. It is to reach all classes of men, rich and poor, high and low. ‘Go out into the highways and hedges,’ Christ says, ‘and compel them to come in, that My house may be filled.’

“The world is perishing for want of the gospel. There is a famine for the word of God. There are few who preach the word unmixed with human tradition. Though men have the Bible in their hands, they do not receive the blessing that God has placed in it for them. The Lord calls upon His servants to carry His message to the people.

“The word of everlasting life must be given to those who are perishing in their sins.” Christ’s Object Lessons, 227.

We are told that the truths in the book of Revelation are “our lesson for the present time,” and that those truths are “a revelation of the important events that are to take place”:

Our lesson for the present time is, How may we most clearly comprehend and present the gospel that Christ came in person to present to John on the Isle of Patmos,— the gospel that is termed, ‘The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass. . . . Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein; for the time is at hand.’

“We are to proclaim to the world the great and solemn truths of Revelation. Into the very designs and principles of the church of God these truths are to enter. A benediction is pronounced upon those who pay due regard to this communication. The blessing is promised to encourage a study of this book. We are by no means to become weary of looking into it because of its apparently mystical symbols.

There should be a closer and more diligent study of this book, more earnest presentation of the truths it contains, truths which concern all who are living in these last days. All who are preparing to meet their Lord should make this book the subject of earnest study and prayer. It is just what its name signifies,—a revelation of the important events that are to take place in the last days of this earth’s history. John, because of his faithful trust in the Word of God and the testimony of Christ, was banished to the Isle of Patmos. But his banishment did not separate him from Christ. The Lord knows all about His faithful servants, who for His sake are lying in prisons and dungeons, or have been banished to lonely islands, and He comforts them in their affliction. Christ visited John in his exile, and opened to him the closing scenes of this world’s history.

“The truths opened to John are of the greatest importance to us, for we are living in the very last days. Soon we shall enter upon the fulfilment of the events which Christ showed John were to take place. As the messengers of the Lord present these solemn truths, they must realize that they are handling subjects of eternal interest, and they should seek for the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that they may speak, not their own words, but the words given them by God.

“The book of Revelation must be opened to the people. Many have been taught that it is a sealed book; but it is sealed to those only who reject light and truth. The truth that it contains must be proclaimed, that people may have an opportunity to prepare for the events which are so soon to take place. The third angel’s message must be presented as the only hope for salvation of a perishing world.

“The perils of the last days are upon us, and in our work we are to warn people of the danger that they are in. Let not the solemn scenes, that prophecy has revealed are soon to take place, be left untouched. If our people were awake, if they realized the nearness of the events portrayed by John, such a reformation would be made in our churches that many more would believe our message. We are God’s messengers, and we have no time to lose, for He calls upon us to watch for souls as they that must give an account. Advance new principles, and crowd in clear-cut truth. It will be as a sword cutting both ways. But do not be too ready to take a controversial attitude. There will be times when we must stand still and see the salvation of the Lord. Present the truth as it is in Jesus. Let Daniel speak, let Revelation speak, and tell what is truth. But whatever phase of the subject is presented, uplift Jesus as the center of all hope, ‘the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.’” Pacific Union Recorder, January 14, 1904.

Jones and Waggoner’s message is the beginning of the loud cry message. The beginning of the message is a revelation of Christ which produces a reformation in the life of someone who truly meets Jesus – this is the starting point. But the loud cry was squelched in that time period, so it did not go beyond the beginning of the message. When the message of the loud cry again begins to sound, there will once again need to be an experience in the lives of believers that begins with a revelation of Christ that starts at the foot of the cross.

Download the December, 2007 newsletter from the website if you haven’t read it yet. That newsletter deals with this argument. Hope this helps. Jeff.

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